Wednesday, February 21, 2007

The Legend of The Nails for The Cross of Jesus -La légende des ongles pour la croix de Jésus


am adding this story for Kristine..but I hope everyone will enjoy reading it.. I know many will know the story very well..but I also know you never tire of hearing it so Phrals , Phena's & bitti Chavvies..sit down and enjoy :-)

There are several versions of this Story..but this is the one I like best :-)

One day long ago a Roman soldier visited a Gypsy Smith to order 12 large nails. The Gypsy began work on the nails but he had no idear that they were to be used to nail Jesus and the two thieves to the Crosses.

The night before the crucifixion, a little Gypsy girl slept in a camp nearby, she had the gift of sight, in a vision she saw that the Gypsy Smith had been tricked, and the reason for which the nails were intended.

The little girl crept from her bed, and used her gift to find the place where the nails lay waiting , she was very small and the nails were on a high shelf , the little girl strained to reach the nails. Just as she they were almost in reach she heard a Roman guard approach the room, she managed to grab just three of the nails the others clattered to the floor, she had been seen ..but she managed to escape with the three nails.

This why Jesus and the two theives were crucified with just three nails each...a nail for each hand..and a single nail to secure the feet.

The Gypsies had to flee because the Roman soldiers were very angry aboyt the little girl stealing the nails..God the father saw it all..and smiled down upon the Gypsy people..and as the little girl had used her gift..and stolen..in an attempt to save his beloved son..God bestowed upon the Gypsy people for all time the right to steal...but if this right were accepted then the gift of Sight would could never be used to see for each other....this is using the gift to see for each other is a taboo for the Gypsy people.


After the crucifixion a lynch mob was formed to hunt down the Gypsies..but the Gypsies escaped The story goes that ever since ..the "gadje" ( non Gypsy people) have been hunting for the Gypsies..and this is another reason why the Gypsies are wanderers According to the story..it is only when the nails are found that the persecution of the Gypsies will end.

Please scroll to the end ..to read a poem by the Sinti (German Gypsy) Poet SpatzoThis Poem is posted in English , French and its original form




J'ajoute cette histoire pour Kristine.mais j'espère que chacun aura plaisir à le lire. Je sais que beaucoup sauront l'histoire très bien.mais je ne vous connais jamais également pneu de l'audition il ainsi Phrals, Phena et bitti Chavvies.asseyez-vous et appréciez :-)

Il y a plusieurs versions de cette histoire.mais c'est celui que j'aime mieux :-)

Pendant un jour il y a bien longtemps un soldat romain a rendu visite à un Smith gitan pour commander 12 grands ongles. Le bohémien a commencé le travail sur les ongles mais il n'a eu aucun idear qu'elles devaient être employées pour clouer Jésus et les deux voleurs aux croix

La nuit avant la crucifixion, une petite fille gitane a dormi dans un camp tout près, elle a eu le cadeau de la vue, dans une vision elle a vu que le Smith gitan avait été dupé, et la raison pour laquelle les ongles ont été prévus.

La petite fille a rampé de son lit, et utilisé son cadeau pour trouver l'endroit où les ongles étendent l'attente, elle était très petite et les ongles étaient sur une haute étagère, la petite fille tendue pour atteindre les ongles. Juste comme elle ils étaient presque dedans extension elle a entendu une garde romaine approcher la salle, elle est parvenue à saisir juste trois des ongles que les autres ont claqués au plancher, elle avait été vue.mais elle est parvenue à s'échapper avec les trois ongles.

Ceci pourquoi Jésus et les deux voleurs ont été crucifiés avec juste trois ongles chacun…un ongle pour chaque main.et un ongle simple pour fixer les pieds

Les bohémiens ont dû se sauver parce que les soldats romains étaient aboyt très fâché la petite fille volant les ongles.Dieu le père l'a vu tout.et souri vers le bas sur les personnes gitanes.et comme la petite fille avait employé son cadeau.et volé.afin d'essayer de sauver son fils aimé.Dieu accordé sur les personnes gitanes pour tout chronomètrent la droite de voler…mais si cette droite étaient acceptées alors le cadeau de la vue pourrait ne jamais être employé pour voir l'un pour l'autre….ceci emploie le cadeau pour voir l'un pour l'autre est un tabou pour les personnes gitanes.

Après que la crucifixion une foule de lyncher ait été formée pour chasser en bas des bohémiens.mais les bohémiens ont échappé


à l'histoire va cela depuis.le "gadje " (les personnes non gitanes) ont été chasse pour les bohémiens.et c'est une autre raison pour laquelle les bohémiens sont des vagabonds
selon l'histoire.il est seulement quand on trouve les ongles que le persection des bohémiens finira.

Svp rouleau à l'extrémité.pour lire une poésie par le poèt Spatzo de Sinti (bohémien allemand) cette poésie est signalée en anglais, Français et original


Spatzo (Vittorio Mayer Pasquale)


In the language of the Estrekarja Sinti, spatzo means "baby bird" or "sparrow", a nickname that recalls the sense of liberty often celebrated by this poet who along his life has experienced very bitter periods of suffering. Through his poetry, in opposition to the adversity of his fate, Spatzo shows us that he knew how to keep intact the Romani love of things simple and immediate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dans la langue de l'Estrekarja Sinti, le spatzo signifie le « oiseau de bébé » ou le « moineau », un surnom qui rappelle le sens de la liberté a souvent célébré par ce poèt qui le long de sa vie a éprouvé des périodes très amères de la souffrance. Par sa poésie, en opposition à l'adversité de son destin, Spatzo nous prouve qu'il a su maintenir intact l'amour de Romani des choses simple et immédiat.

The Four Nails

( a slightly different version of the Stroy in this poem )


The legend says:

Four nails were forged

to make the Redeemer die.


They were seen by a daughter of the wind

who passed across the hill in her travels

through the streets of the world.


Just one she took away,

so the soldier didn't notice.


And thus He was crucifiedwith three nails only.


The fourth nail joined the suffering of the Sinti to the Redeemer.
The legend says.

Les quatre ongles


(une version légèrement différente de l'histoire.dit en cette poésie)

La légende indique :Quatre ongles ont été forgés pour inciter le rédempteur à mourir.
Ils ont été vus par une fille du vent qui a passé à travers la colline dans elle des voyages par les rues du monde.

Juste un qu'elle a emporté,ainsi le soldat n'a pas noté.
Et il a été crucifié ainsi avec trois ongles seulement.
Le quatrième ongle a joint la douleur du Sinti au rédempteur.
La légende indique.


U star nágli


Penéla u parmísso:

Star nágli hísle peráit

Fir ti kerén ti merél i Retáres.


Jek vintákri ciáj dikjás,

Forpái ap i hígla,

Har giálesli ap u drom fon u vélto.
Jek kórkoro ciordásli,

U kurmáskro na haiciardáspes.
Unt Jov viás kiáke nágaldo

.Mit trin nágli ap u kráizo.
U stárto náglo ciás i sinténgro gi mit i láida fon u Retári.
Penéla u parmísso

21 Comments:

Blogger Kristy said...

Pesha , Thanks so much for posting this! I have never heard this version and you are right ~~ I too love it best!!! It brings tears to my eyes. It's not fair that the gypsy was tricked like that...... but in the bigger scheme of things who is to say it was not part of the Creator's plan??? There is only ONE high enough to see it all and that is God. No one else can have an opinion on it for to judge is to bring judgement upon you.

Love Kristine

February 21, 2007 at 4:35:00 PM GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pleeze Pesha will U do a video blog
pleeze and do storees on that we would love that and U are funny and U make us larf and we like to CU
we R up late thare is a partea
from
Aimee and Mary Doll
with love and kissers

February 21, 2007 at 10:14:00 PM GMT  
Blogger Pesha_Tshaya ( Leshya'e Romanes) said...

Kushti divves Aimee and Mary Doll
You were up late last night!!...I hope you enjoyed the party :-)
Hmmmm A video blog ?
Now theres a thought to juggle with..but O doorie ..I am such an old lady ..and it would mean I could not sit here on the computer in my curlers..and I would have to put my teeth in as well !!!
Maybe I could borrow Kako Woods Waterloo teeth ?
I'm not sure it would be such a good idea really ..and I'm not sure I know how to make a video blog either ( although I'm sure some kind soul will take the trouble to tell me)
I hope you are both enjoting half term,,and are both being very good..because if your not ........well perhaps we better not talk about what could happen then ;-)
Thank you for putting your message it was a very nice surprise
xxxxx Pesha xxxxx

February 22, 2007 at 9:56:00 AM GMT  
Blogger M Woods said...

Pesha you can borrow my teeth any time at all phena
I may even leave them to you in my will
I think a video blog would be wonderful indeed
Any volunteers to show the lady how it is done
And we want her dressed up for it as well
no curlers lol
let us see if we can get that running soon

February 23, 2007 at 9:51:00 PM GMT  
Anonymous bernard said...

elle est belle cette histoire de petite fille
merci ..

March 7, 2007 at 6:10:00 PM GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you believe that this makes it right for your people to thieve?

Maybe if the Roma stopped deluding themselves that they are above the law and can help themselves to settled people's hard earned money and possessions, the would be afforded some respect and would not be deported en masse.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0724/roma.html

July 24, 2007 at 7:49:00 AM GMT  
Blogger Lady K said...

Actually the gypsies may have it right after all Anaymous! Do you know of the secret or of abraham??? whereby it has been re-discovered that we are creators with God???? I love the song give me that old thyme religion give me that old thyme religion give me that old thyme religion it was good enuf for me! it was good enuf for me forefathers good enuf for my forefathers good enuf for my forfathers and good enuf for me!
:-))) an only a true gypsy will know what I mean here!!! if ye be walking down the road thinking about how hungry ye are and then suddenly ya see a peach tree in a field beyond heavy with nice juicy peaches who's to say God or you did not put it there just by wishing for it?????? who's to say that is stealing?????? if God is for ye just who are those to be against ye in such a hateful way????

February 6, 2008 at 5:45:00 AM GMT  
Blogger aiyipianni said...

Aston Villa rode their luck at Hull City where an 88-minute own goal from Kamil Zayatte saw them leapfrog three points clear of Arsenal and into fourth place in the Premier League wow gold with a 1-0 win.

Villa had to survive Hull penalty appeals for a handball against Ashley Young in time added on, television replays showing that referee Steve Bennett wow gold correctly rejected the claims after consulting a linesman.

Bennett had been involved in controversy after just five minutes when American goalkeeper Brad Friedel looked to have handed Hull the initiative and threaten Villa's return to the Champions League qualifying wow gold zone.

Friedel spilled wow gold the ball under pressure from Nick Barmby and stand-in right-back Nigel Reo-Coker turned it into his own net as he attempted to wow gold clear.

But Bennett cut short wow gold celebrations at the KC Stadium -- and let Friedel off the hook -- when he ruled out the score for an apparent infringement by Barmby.

Zayatte's intervention from a Young cross bound for wow gold Gabriel Agbonlahor then saw Villa leapfrog Arsenal and draw level with Manchester United on 38 points -- seven adrift of leaders Liverpool and four wow gold behind Chelsea.

Stung by an on-pitch dressing down wow gold by manager Phil Brown at Manchester City last week, Hull showed five changes and a vastly improved performance.

Promoted Hull were looking for only their second win in 11 games while wow gold Villa arrived unbeaten in seven and it looked to be heading for a goalless draw when the home side suffered a cruel late blow.

January 16, 2009 at 8:41:00 AM GMT  
Blogger aiyipianni said...

South Africa inflicted the world of warcraft gold first home series defeat on Australia in almost 16 wow powerleveling years as they wrapped up a nine-wicket win over the world's number one ranked world of warcraft gold Test nation in Melbourne on Tuesday.

Captain Graeme Smith wow power leveling hit a fluent 75 as his side successfully passed a world of warcraft gold modest victory target of 183 on the final day at the MCG to take an wow powerleveling unassailable 2-0 lead.

It was the South dofus kamas African's first-ever Test series triumph in Australia and dofus kamas victory in the third and final match in Sydney will see them leapfrog the home side at the top of the global Lord of the Rings Online Gold rankings.

Hashim Amla LOTRO Gold (30 not out) scored the winning fly for fun penya runs shortly after lunch as South Africa flyff penya became the first team to overcome Australia at home Final Fantasy XI gilsince the West Indies in 1992-93.

South Africa ffxi gil were never under any pressure in eq2 plat their run chase and did not lose eq2 gold a wicket until just before lunch when the inspirational Smith Lord of the Rings Online Gold was trapped leg before wicket by Nathan LOTRO Gold Hauritz.

Smith had flyff penya dominated a 121-run opening stand flyff money with Neil McKenzie, hitting ffxi gil 10 boundaries.

McKenzie struggled to buy ffxi gil a half century and survived strong eq2 plat lbw shouts from Brett Lee, eq2 gold who was bowling despite an injured foot that will Lord of the Rings Online gold keep him out of the Sydney Test.

South Africa's LOTRO gold victory was set up by a brilliant maiden Test century fly for fun penya from JP Duminy, who shared a stunning flyff penya 180-run ninth wicket partnership with pace bowler Dale Final Fantasy XI gil Steyn.

It gave the tourists ffxi gil a priceless 65-run lead on first innings before man of eq2 plat the match Steyn worked his magic with the ball as Australia were eq2 gold bowled out on the fourth day for 247 in their second innings.

The pugnacious Smith was virtually runescape money lost for words in his victory speech.

"It has been such a special moment runescape gold for all of us, it has been an incredible team effort," he said.

"I have been smiling non-stop wow po since we hit the winning runs.

"To be 2-0 up after this game was something wow or we only dreamt of."

South Africa won the first Test in Perth from an unlikely position, chasing 414 for victory for the loss of only four wickets.

January 16, 2009 at 8:45:00 AM GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

jesus was cucified with 2 thieves and let them follow him tho heaven also it is said in the bible, that if any one has more than thay need and let it get neglected old and dusty then thiefs my take it.thats the jist of what I get of it when I read the bible any way. This sems fair so theres more to go around,do you see.I have gypsey in my family and celts and I have second sight. Thanks to God Amon

September 27, 2010 at 8:31:00 AM GMT  
Anonymous Tomás Ó Cárthaigh said...

I have to say that the story of the right to steal sticks in the craw - and it is only one of many versions of that story, and origionates in the version from the Chergari. That is the story told in "The Fourth Nail" by George Eli.

Using that as a reason to live off those around you will not help you get accepted at all, and will lose any sympathy there is for your people. As for the so called right to steal, research done by Paul Polansky suggests a tribe of bandits from Punjab region (akin to the Thugees) that worhiped the Hindu god Kali merged with the Roma, and kept their ways probably becoming the Chergari tribe, and notorius with that, and smearing the name of all Romani in the process.

Id advise you to drop that story for the betterment of your people. Even if the origions are as Polanskys research suggests, it is no reason to live that way today. The Norse were bandits, pirates and theives, and they are proud of their heritage as that was the way of the times. It does not mean they live that way today.

To forward such stories enforces stereotypes, not combats them.
The main version of that story is that the blacksmith made the nails and sold them to the soldier, and hence they were condemned to wander the earth till kingdom come, and a lot of Roma think they are a tribe of Jews, not one of the official tribes, but cast out from the main tribes, and they keep to a strong Mosaic law.

September 27, 2010 at 5:27:00 PM GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well done. We are pleased with the value of the data presented. I sincerely hope that you keep up with the outstanding job succesfully done.
Locksmith Elgin IL

March 14, 2011 at 8:51:00 AM GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well done. We are pleased with the value of the data presented. I sincerely hope that you keep up with the outstanding job succesfully done.
Locksmith Elgin IL

March 14, 2011 at 8:51:00 AM GMT  
Blogger Unknown said...

Hello Persha I stumbled upon your blog while researching a film im making on the wonderful story of the Nail. It was originally told to me by Romany woman and her mother who had a small shop on Hollywood Blvd . It started out as a small story just about the legend itself. Then I googled your blog read your version. and realized this was bigger story that needed to be told. AS i see the romany girl with second sight as a kind of metaphor for the romany history in europe. Then i started going through the archive at the Holocaust mueseum and finding even more information about the Panjemos (hope i spelled that right.)and i realized that almost nothing in film mentions the gypsies in the camps and the numbers were staggering. I found a brief reference to Romany woman resistence fighter who was sent to Mathhausen Camp. No name no history . Being a fantasy writer My imagination took off and i imagined that the girl who stole the nail and the resistence fighter were the same immortal girl who cannot rest until she recovers the nail. I imagined that the girl followed the nail all the way into hell and with the help of an overburdaned angel of death, recovers the nail and takes it back where God transforms it into the key that opens the gates to Mathhausen concentration camp. Granted i know that that the Nail has not been found as the french held Romany prisoners until two years after the war.and presnet day suffering of gypsies is as bad as it ever was. I simply realized that my story was getting over long for animated short film and had to reach point of stopping with an end that satisfied the viewer. My goal with this short film is to enter it in film festivals especially film festivals in france as what they are doing right now to the gypsies is horrible and the issue needs attention in the place where its happening right now. Im not looking to win those festivals im looking to raise awareness and do some good in some small way if i can. I am not gypsy myself as far as i know. I am however half scottish and 1/4 native American. Not to mention a Drag queen so i have a perspective on oppressed peoples. I just wanted to thank you for your blog i have learned a whole lot from it and inspiring me so powerfully.
Love
V

October 3, 2011 at 11:12:00 AM GMT  
Anonymous Isenki said...

Unfortunately, the Romani didn't migrate from India until 500 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. So that pretty much eliminates all the justification they had for stealing.

December 12, 2011 at 7:01:00 AM GMT  
Anonymous El Gordo said...

Pesha

I was looking for the legend of the nails. The one I had read and liked told of the Roman soldiers being given the money to purchase the nails. They rather foolishly went to a bar first and spent most of the money. They went to have the nails made and tried several Jewish blacksmiths, who said sorry but we are not making the nails for such a small amount. Eventually they found a Romany blacksmith who agreed to make the nails for the small sum that the soldiers had left. It is here that I am not sure how the story continues but I think the smith ran out of iron and could not make the fourth nail. He did not have enough money to buy more iron and set out to find some. He was unsuccessful and has been trying to find some iron ever since.

I thought I had read this in “Bury me standing” by Isabel Fonseca, that version of the legend begins much as I remembered but the soldiers killed all the smiths who refused to make the nails. The gypsy blacksmith made three nails easily and the soldiers took them and went. The fourth nail would not cool down and appears as a glowing emblem from time to time forcing the gypsy to move on. This is a very shortened version and it is well worth reading the original.

My father fought in the “Great War” was gassed and blown up. He would not talk much about his experiences in the trenches, only to say his best friend was a gypsy who taught him a few Romany words.

The ones that stuck in my mind were “Roka Romany”.

At the age of eighteen I went to sea and at one stage we went to Cherbourg. I went ashore with the Radio Operator and we were drinking in a bar when some Norwegian Seamen came in. The Norwegians, in those days had a problem because they had very strict drink laws in Norway, if I remember rightly you needed a licence to buy spirits. Anyway things got out of hand and the gendarmes were called. Fighting had broken out and a slightly built man seemed to be in the middle of it.

The gendarmes arrived, by this time the slightly built man had disappeared, they rounded everyone up using their batons to good effect. Fortunately the barmaid had invited us to stand behind the bar and explained to the gendarmes we had not caused any trouble (I spoke a little schoolboy French).

The slightly built man reappeared and came and stood next to us in front of the bar. He said something to me of which my poor French couldn’t make sense.

He said it again and I caught the words Roka Romany. I spoke to him in French telling him that I didn’t speak Romany. He apologised and I told him it was not a problem.

This part of Surrey/Hampshire has large numbers of Gypsies who have for one reason or another given up travelling and my wife and I find them very easy to get along with.

August 8, 2012 at 6:38:00 PM GMT  
Anonymous El Gordo said...

continued
We are interested in Flamenco music and have many Gypsy friends in Spain. Once in Malaga a flower seller put a carnation in my trouser pocket and when I said “No” she removed it. I was taking pictures and my wife called to me that she had been given my wallet and the woman had indicated she had picked it up.

Had she picked my pocket and for one reason or another changed her mind? Everything was still there, although I carried no cash in that wallet. I tried to catch up with her but she disappeared. I have seen her or someone very like her several times in Malaga but she always disappears.

Stealing dominates the comments on this blog and I quote from “The Bible in Spain” by George Borrow. He was sent to Spain by the Bible Society, as its agent, for the purpose of printing and circulating the Scriptures in 1835.



Antonio is a Gypsy; Borrow writes in the first person, Errate is the Gypsy race, Busné is a non-Gypsy, Caloré a Gypsy.

Antonio has asked who sent Borrow to Spain.

“Antonio-Are they Caloré or Busné?

Myself-What matters it? Both Caloré and Busné are sons of the same God.

Antonio-You lie, brother; they are not of one father nor of one Errate. You speak of robbery, cruelty and murder. There are too many Busné, brother; if there were no Busné there would be neither robbery nor murder. The Caloré neither rob nor murder each other, the Busné do; nor are they cruel to their animals, their law forbids them.”



Unfortunately things haven’t changed very much since Borrow’s time. In fact many would say that financial institutions have been robbing their customers along with other businesses who, strangely, are claiming to give 60% discounts.


With regard to the nails: I told a Flamenco friend of mine the story as I remembered it and the next day he gave me a nail. It is a quarter of an inch square section tapering to a point. Five and a half inches long with a circular head one inch in diameter. If driven through a wrist there would be three and a half inches in the timber. It is rusted but still solid with a slight bend.

He lived for a while in one of the caves in the Sacromonte in Granada where many Gypsies live and that was where he found it.

A footnote to Borrow’s work I understand that quite large numbers of Gypsies are converting to the Evangelical Churches in Spain.

August 8, 2012 at 6:44:00 PM GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a gypsy also the story's are very interesting I grew up my whole life hearing them but even if it's true I don't think that gives us a right to steal it does not say in the ten commandments thou shall not steal except for the gypsies it says thou shall not steal period.

January 28, 2013 at 5:38:00 AM GMT  
Anonymous Mikolaj said...

Pesha,
That's a very beautiful legend - thanks a lot for relating it... If you could please check the french translation though... Google Translate does its job in strange ways - "ongles" in french are nails indeed, but the ones we have on our fingers and toes, whereas the nails used by carpenters (and of course in the Crucifixion) are "clous". The way it's translated now it seems unwittingly funny and it kind of spoils the beautiful legend for the one who read it in french...
Thanks again!

July 6, 2013 at 5:32:00 PM GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Working in retail I have only encountered scammers. They buy the most expensive things; wear them then return everything. Fucking assholes. This story makes me want to vomit. If you live in the USA get a job and pay taxes and quit with the religious justification for thievery.....

March 17, 2014 at 4:39:00 AM GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please - ongles in French means nails as in finger nails. The word for nails as in Jesus on the Cross in French is 'clou' singular and 'clous' plural. I'm of this community through my Mum and also speak French so please change the word from ongles to clous.

April 6, 2014 at 10:52:00 PM GMT  

Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]

<< Home